I find that cases like this represent one of the biggest problems in today’s research: once someone falsifies something, an entire branch of research gets cut off completely as nobody wants to pursue that path anymore, understandably. But if the “proof” is in fact wrong, then you actually just hid a big part of the research surface to everybody. And usually that’s also where progress is made: when, despite proof, research is pursued because of a gut feeling. Stay skeptic!
terminalbraid 1 hours ago [-]
What was wrong with the proof in this case? The paper explicitly states and acknowledges the issue raised by this article before the author was aware of it. The author of the article just contends that it is an experimental issue to set up unentangled initial states which are required for the experiment, and indeed someone who was going to perform the experiment needs to convincing demonstrate the assumptions are met.
The author even admits this "is better than doing no test at all".
moi2388 36 minutes ago [-]
Nothing, except the perception of what was said and what was actually said. (The same happend to Bells inequality actually)
“ (…) you can just mimic the behavior of complex numbers using pairs of real numbers (and appropriately tweaked definitions of operations).
(…) What Renou et al are actually claiming is that if you start with quantum mechanics, and then remove all operations and states involving non-real numbers, and then try to emulate what was lost using what remains, you will fail in an experimentally detectable way”
Meaning it’s actually totally possible to only use reals to encode the complex Numbers, but not to also remove all operators which do the same things as the complex numbers would.
catigula 1 hours ago [-]
Quantum computing research feels like one of those things whose greatest effort would likely be classified research. In fact, you could argue the article in the OP looks like well-poisoning based on the author's conclusions.
trhway 2 hours ago [-]
>Not allowing the players to come into the game with entangled states is really, really strange.
I think i saw such a warning on a casino door in LV.
amelius 1 hours ago [-]
How did they check?
rdtsc 11 minutes ago [-]
They just observe you, then you're good to come in.
prof-dr-ir 41 minutes ago [-]
Frankly I am so tired of this whole branch of research where people try to be foundational about "quantum theory" but at the same time boil it down to qubits, gates, bell tests and, well, two-by-two matrices.
Here is my viewpoint, which somehow some people find controversial: quantum theory is first and foremost a description of individual particles. To describe their time evolution, we use the Schrodinger equation:
i d_t Psi = H Psi
What is that "i" there? Oh right, the imaginary unit. So... quantum theory uses complex numbers.
Now you are free to search for another theory without the "i", and perhaps even find something that is somehow mathematically consistent. But that theory either describes experiments just as well as ordinary quantum theory, in which case it is physically equivalent and of no advantage (except to those with strong allergies to complex numbers), or it does not, and then it is wrong.
Of course the last logical possibility is that your theory might do better than quantum theory... but that is the dream only of those who do not known quantum field theory.
/rant, with apologies
jjk166 2 minutes ago [-]
The "i" is there because it is a convenient way in our system of mathematics to write out such an equation, but that really comes from the fact that complex numbers have two dimensionality. Our best understanding of the universe demands that higher dimensionality, not necessarily the imaginary-ness.
Yes a different mathematical formulation may be rewritten into this imaginary form, and thus is mathematically equivalent. But by the same logic a heliocentric system of elliptical orbits is mathematically equivalent to a geocentric system of epicycles. From one perspective there is a certain deeper meaning there - the universe has no absolute reference frame; but if you view your cosmos in terms of epicycles its very difficult to develop an understanding of what drives those epicycles, namely gravity. Likewise thinking about quantum mechanics in terms of of imaginary numbers may allow for accurate calculations, but nevertheless be an intellectual stumbling block for understanding why the universe is this way.
I personally have no issue with "imaginary" numbers having real physical meaning. Our inability to process the square root of negative 1 seems more like a limitation of our ape brains than the universe, and likewise for the majority of quantum weirdness. But in throwing up my hands saying the question can not be answered, I have guaranteed that I will never find the answer even if it does indeed exist.
The author even admits this "is better than doing no test at all".
“ (…) you can just mimic the behavior of complex numbers using pairs of real numbers (and appropriately tweaked definitions of operations). (…) What Renou et al are actually claiming is that if you start with quantum mechanics, and then remove all operations and states involving non-real numbers, and then try to emulate what was lost using what remains, you will fail in an experimentally detectable way”
Meaning it’s actually totally possible to only use reals to encode the complex Numbers, but not to also remove all operators which do the same things as the complex numbers would.
I think i saw such a warning on a casino door in LV.
Here is my viewpoint, which somehow some people find controversial: quantum theory is first and foremost a description of individual particles. To describe their time evolution, we use the Schrodinger equation:
i d_t Psi = H Psi
What is that "i" there? Oh right, the imaginary unit. So... quantum theory uses complex numbers.
Now you are free to search for another theory without the "i", and perhaps even find something that is somehow mathematically consistent. But that theory either describes experiments just as well as ordinary quantum theory, in which case it is physically equivalent and of no advantage (except to those with strong allergies to complex numbers), or it does not, and then it is wrong.
Of course the last logical possibility is that your theory might do better than quantum theory... but that is the dream only of those who do not known quantum field theory.
/rant, with apologies
Yes a different mathematical formulation may be rewritten into this imaginary form, and thus is mathematically equivalent. But by the same logic a heliocentric system of elliptical orbits is mathematically equivalent to a geocentric system of epicycles. From one perspective there is a certain deeper meaning there - the universe has no absolute reference frame; but if you view your cosmos in terms of epicycles its very difficult to develop an understanding of what drives those epicycles, namely gravity. Likewise thinking about quantum mechanics in terms of of imaginary numbers may allow for accurate calculations, but nevertheless be an intellectual stumbling block for understanding why the universe is this way.
I personally have no issue with "imaginary" numbers having real physical meaning. Our inability to process the square root of negative 1 seems more like a limitation of our ape brains than the universe, and likewise for the majority of quantum weirdness. But in throwing up my hands saying the question can not be answered, I have guaranteed that I will never find the answer even if it does indeed exist.